I thought the magic of asset relocation would be reserved to XL citadels, but after re-reading the original asset blog, it seems to cover all sizes. Have I missed an update / reading it wrong?

If there is a problem which needs fixing, I think K-Space getting a new protection it didn't have before, in the citadel sizes which will replace existing POS's - is it. Rather than helping WH, consider reducing the amount of asset protection in K-Space ;)

What if the "M" or even the "L" size were not covered by the asset relocation feature in K-Space? Perhaps the "L" size could offer "partial asset relocation?"

Still haven't seen anything related to other structures.

Have you guys scrapped the plans to have various different structures of which citadels are only one type designed to be highly dependable? Are citadels going to be the only type of structure (essentially replacing POSes), defensible but highly customizable with no other stuff like market hubs or manufacturing structures or are citadels just the pet project getting all the love while other structure types are coming out and we might, eventually get so see previews of those in a devblog?

You cannot be biased if youGÇÖre going to take away Asset Protection in WH Space. It needs to apply to everyone.

If you can warp to a Citadel like a combat anomaly in a WH you had better be able to do it everywhere else.

If itGÇÖs a 48 hours to siege a Citadel in a WH then it needs to be 48 hours in Null, Low and High Sec. Otherwise your just thumbing your nose, again, at people that live in WH space.

Disclosure, I am a fan of automated defenses. But IGÇÖm kind of looking forward to checking out the Drone/Fighter bay module for the Citadels and to see how many you can stuff in them. And see if you field Bombers from it?

No one will commit 30-50 pirate/faction battleships to attack a structure for no gain. You can't even get those ships into a C1 and you would need at least 3 or 4 separate wormholes to get them into a C2. Further, there is no highsec organization I am aware (maybe RvB?) of that that can field 50 high-skilled battleship pilots at one time. And, realistically you will need at least a hundred to do it within a vulnerability window - and that assumes zero opposition.

Without capitals almost no one will ever attack an XL citadel. I doubt even the Goons would bother unless it is for a significant propaganda reason as the opportunity cost is so large. The number of pilots required is just too high.

In any case, it certainly doesn't meet the stated goal of "the most rewarding structures should always be vulnerable to attack" since they are invulnerable to attack by any group unable to field 50-100 top-tier DPS battleships (or 200 entry fit battleships), or in other words almost every group in the game.

Ah, so now you want to require a minimum of 3-400 players to even consider attacking an XL citadel? Sure, like that is ever going to happen.

It's not the equipment cost that is the issue it is the number of players required. Most groups in this game cannot field 200 pilots, especially groups based in highsec or wormholes. In fact, setting the bar at even 50 players means they are never going to be attacked. They will not drive conflict or create content in any meaningful sense.

It is a non-starter. It won't happen. There is no way CCP will release a structure that requires 100+ hours of player effort to attack even if the defender doesn't show up.

Then you need to do that two more times to kill it.

No it's not.

It's great on paper for safety for me. I will be immune to anyone who can't bring 100 people into my wormhole over three (or perhaps two) days. In other words, 100% safe.

]And we have come full circle.

No highsec or small WH group is going to spend 20 x 3h x 3 timers, or 180 hours of player time to shoot an XL citadel that doesn't drop any loot. Hardly any of them can in the first place. And what if they are actually defended?

Back in this post, I offered the idea that personal / corp hanger asset protection could be made to depend on the Citadel size class: What if the "M" or even the "L" size were not covered by the asset relocation feature in K-Space? Perhaps the "L" size could offer "partial asset relocation?"

Interestingly, the plateau and eventually decline in player counts correlates well with the period in the game (around 2010/11) when CCP started seriously buffing highsec safety, while simultaneously buffing highsec rewards by adding more lucrative PvE content to highsec like incursions. In fact, after the normal post-expansion boost, the game stopped growing and then went into decline ever since the Incursion expansion in November 2010. It's been all downhill since CCP made highsec both the safest and most lucrative sector of the space in the game in an attempt to cater to these PvP-averse highsec residents.

Calm down now, this is a friendly discussion. This thread is about citadels though, so perhaps we shouldn't drag it off topic to why "Eve is dying" as we already have two of those threads going in GD. But I will address your points briefly:

1. Of course, incursions take place everywhere but wormholes. But that doesn't change the fact they dramatically buffed the income potential in highsec. Highsec was made much more lucrative after the Incursion expansion than before. That is a fact.
2. I never said it was the "most lucrative". I said it was too lucrative for how safe it is. And it is.
3. I specifically acknowledged there were other factors. That also doesn't change the fact Eve player counts have declined ever since Incursion was released. That is not proof of anything, just an interesting correlation.

This is all off-topic. I only raised these points to address the previous poster who was presenting factually incorrect information about the history of highsec safety. Citadels should not be "invulnerable and totally safe" as they asserted. They are needed to drive conflict and make player stories, not clutter up highsec as invulnerable monuments until they day the server is switched off.

Sure, let's balance a mechanic that is suppose to be accessible to the all the player base around a near max skilled character flying an expensive pirate battleship.

CCP's own numbers from the devblog say up to 225 players will be needed in battleships so I am perfectly fine with my characterization of 100-200 players to meet the 30 minute target.

But even asking a small WH corp or highsec group to field 40 max-DPS faction/pirate battleships to even attempt to attack them in the time proposed by the design is way too much. Also, don't forget these are the minimum requirements - the citadel is suppose to fight back.

Requiring the defenders to turn up to at least one of the timers isn't rendering them useless. You are not entitled to structures which are such a chore to destroy that nobody will even attempt it no matter how certain they are that you won't undock.

Yes and I will tell him that I will do what I do currently with a POS, online it run some refining and then take it down again, nice gameplay that...

I thought it was a normal unanchor time but a 24 hr cooldown period before you can unanchor?

Once the unanchoring process has started, the structure will become invulnerable for a specific amount of time
Once the invulnerability timers runs out, the structure will be vulnerable for damage yet again, with having a repair process identical of whatGÇÖs been mentioned above. This time however, shields, armor and hulls will be fully available

OK, so for anchoring it takes a full repair timer to become fully operational.

For unanchoring I thought the 24 hrs was before you could unanchor to guarantee the structure would still be there when a wardec kicks in. what happens after the unanchor is still not clear to me, is it the repair cycle before you can scoop?

Do you plan to lose the expensive rigs every time? Without them the refining will not be too efficient.

do it 3 times over the course of a week. and stop speculating on build cost and what it will drop. why use rigs on WH one? its just a parking garage that doesn't take fuel.

1. Scan contents of Citadel.....

2.Loss of implants.....

3.Cost of Citadels....